Inbound Marketing Blog

003: How to grow your business with lost customers - and an exciting announcement with Lisa Macqueen

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In this awesome interview, Lisa Macqueen shares how she helped grow her husband's cleaning business with marketing automation and Infusionsoft - and the one campaign that generates hundreds of thousands of dollars of revenue that would otherwise be lost. Lisa also shares an exciting announcement that is sure to excite many listeners.

Show Notes:

Samantha: Lisa Macqueen is an entrepreneur, small business owner, and winner of Infusionsoft's Ultimate Marketer of the Year in 2014. Together with her husband, Hamish, Lisa helped transform the average office cleaning company into a multi-million dollar international business in the space of just a few years. Before joining Cleancorp. Lisa spent 20 years working in sales and marketing for large luxury, international hotel chains. I'm so thrilled to have Lisa on the podcast. So welcome, Lisa Macqueen, to the podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today. I'm really excited to have you on the podcast.

Lisa: Oh, thanks, Sam. It's a pleasure to be here. I'm really excited, too.

Samantha: So I've given a bit of an introduction to our listeners, but can you tell us a little bit about . . . Filling in the blanks, so you moved from a corporate career into your cleaning business, and you know, that was a fairly glamorous career. And cleaning, with the greatest of respect, might not be considered as glamorous. How was that transition for you?

Lisa: I love how you delicately put that. Yes, never a truer word has been said. And I'd just like to make it clear for your listeners that I loved my cushy sales and marketing role, selling beautiful hotels. And there was a little bit of kicking and screaming that went on when Hamish asked me to join Cleancorp. That's the only way I can describe it. But it turned out to the best decision for our family. It was a big turning point for us. The cleaning business had been moving along for about 13 years, Hamish had had the business for 13 years, and he'd built it up to around the $700,000 a year turnover, but couldn't get it any further. And like you say, the cleaning business, it's not very sexy. People don't aspire to be in the cleaning industry, let's just put it that way. And so when I joined, I had to relearn what I knew about marketing, because marketing exotic, gorgeous hotels in beautiful destinations, it's a piece of cake.

It really is a piece of cake compared to marketing cleaning contracts. It took me a while to figure out that nobody wakes up in the morning wanting to buy a cleaning contract. They just want a clean building, or they want a clean office or a clean home or a clean boat or whatever it might be. So once I started to get my head around that, then that whole marketing paradigm shifted for me because I realized that I had to have a different message from what everyone else was saying.

Samantha: How did you work out that you need to have that different message? Like, how did you work out . . .? Did you know that clients were focusing on certain things? Did you talk to clients? Is that how you worked out that you needed to have a different message, or was it just that you needed to sell more, so you had to work out, well, how do I do this differently?

Lisa: Yeah, it was totally that. We needed to sell more, and we reached that point where Hamish had taken the business, and taking it past that, it was like, "Well how are we going to break through that? How do we get that message across?" And I love research, so I spent quite a lot of time on looking at what other cleaning businesses were doing both here in Australia and overseas. And I stalked them a bit on the internet, just to make sure I was getting a really clear picture of what was working elsewhere. And what I realized, and I realized it pretty fast, actually, was that the messaging for all of those cleaning businesses was the same. And even the images, which really struck a chord with me, I just thought, everyone's using the same images, everyone's saying the same thing. "We're the best, we're this, we're that." And so I wanted to make our marketing message completely different to that so that we would stand out in that field.

And it's a ferociously competitive industry, so if you are able to get your marketing message so that it stand out above everyone else, then you'll get some attention, and that became my primary focus.

Samantha: So how did you work out how to make that different? Obviously, I would approach it very similarly, go and research what other people are doing, do something similar to that. But obviously you've realized that that is not going to differentiate you, that'll just do more of the same. Those fears often in doing things differently can be, if I do it differently, I may actually go backwards, and well, if they're doing it that way, maybe I just stick with the way they . . . How did you realize you needed to be different? And what was it that made it different? What did you end up doing?

Lisa: Okay. The reason that I realized I needed to be different was just, coming from my previous background, working for Hyatt, working for Shangri-La, big hotels, and they had a very structured approach to their sales and marketing, and one of them was really focusing on things that their clients wanted. So they were very, very much customer-centric, rather than enterprise-centric or business-centric. So what I had seen was, all of these messages from all of those cleaning companies saying, "We're the best. We're great. Our cleaners do this. Our cleaners do that." But none of them were actually talking about the problems that their clients were having, and I just focused on that. I focused on looking at, what are the problems? What are the hassles? Where can I talk to a customer where they go, "Oh, gosh. They get me. They are the people I want to talk to because they understand I want a clean monitor every morning."

It was that sort of shift. I mean, I'm not afraid to fail. I have failed so many times on so many different levels. So I wasn't afraid to fail, but I wanted to fail quickly, as quick as possible [inaudible 00:06:43].

Samantha: Yes, fail, fail fast.

Lisa: Yes, yes, so we started to do that. And I mean look, it was uncomfortable, because Hamish's business model had been going out, talking to strata managers or property managers or what-have-you and attracting business that way and word of mouth and what-have-you. And when I came in, it was like, "Okay, we need to completely shift how we are doing that so that we are at the forefront rather than at the back of the line." I mean, when I started, Cleancorp didn't even have a website. So that was my first job, get us a website. And as soon as that happened, actually, even with the crummy copywriting that I did, you know, it was my first swipe at it, even with that, there was a lift. And I knew that if I could sort of get that working really well then that would make a big difference, and it did. And every single month we grew, every month. So I knew, then, that that was just . . . Sorry, my husband just walking through.

Samantha: Hi, Hamish.

Hamish: Yeah.

Samantha: We're talking about you.

Lisa: Yeah, we're talking about you.

Hamish: [inaudible 00:07:50].

Lisa: And my doggy just walked through too. So [inaudible 00:07:55].

Samantha: And so how long was it? What was that period between when you tried it and when you saw it started to improve?

Lisa: Well, pretty fast. First of all, having a website, that made the big difference, and then it was tweaking and testing from then on. I would say that would be around about six months? About six months?

Samantha: Wow, six months. That's pretty quick, isn't it? Quick to see that what you're doing is working and then enhancing that as you go. So from there to Ultimate Marketer, what was that kind of timeframe, and how did the business grow and evolve in that time? How did you become recognized as one of the world's, or the world's, leading marketer in 2014, and what happened to your business in that time?

Lisa: Well, that was a period of about three years. And actually, it's a bit of a funny story. So I put in Infusionsoft into our business. When I joined Hamish in the business, I said to him, "I need a business coach. I need someone to help me," because I didn't know how to run a business. I knew how to be a marketer, I knew how to be good at sales, and I considered myself pretty au fait with business operations. But actually owning and running a business, I thought, "Oh, that's way out of my comfort zone." So I started working with a coach, and I deliberately chose a coach in the US. And that actually ended up being super beneficial for us, and I worked with her for a year. But over the course of the first eight to 10 weeks with her, I'd notice that we'd have our call every fortnight, and then during the next fortnight, before I'd speak with her again, I would receive information.

Things would come into my inbox, and I'd always think to myself, I knew she had a lot of clients, and I'd always think, "Wow, she's unbelievable at being able to anticipate what I need and getting it. And it lands in my inbox before I even ask her for it, so I just thought she was a rock star. One day, I said to her, "Debbie, how do you do that? How do you know what I need?" And she said, "Lisa, I have worked with thousands of business owners. I know exactly the journey you're on, and I've automated the process." And I went, "What?"

Samantha: You didn't realize.

Lisa: I didn't even know that was possible. I had no idea I was on an autoresponder series. I didn't even know what an autoresponder was at that time. And she said to me, "Let me introduce you to Infusionsoft." And literally, I'm not kidding, the next day, I signed up, and that was in the days when it was $5,000 to sign up. Yeah, I was one of those customers, but the best money I've ever spent. And back then, I mean, they didn't even have Campaign Builder. It was kind of [inaudible 00:11:00].

Samantha: It was very codey and stuff like that. So would you have considered yourself technical at that time to be able to . . .?

Lisa: Oh, no. No, not at all. Not at all. In fact, it was interesting because back then, they didn't have the Certified Partner Network that they have now, so there was nobody here to help me. And it was quite a struggle, I mean, when I won ICON last year, I had Kelsey Bratcher. Now, Kelsey was one of the Infusionsoft success coaches, that's what they used to call them, and he was my success coach. And Kelsey would send me countless emails and saying, "Come on, Lisa, let's get your first sequence done. Let's do it." And I was terrified to put the first thing out. So I signed up straight away, I knew it was going to be awesome, but it took me a few months before I went and did something, and we were laughing about that. So yeah, it was really quite a funny situation. But then from there, once I got that all up and running, a couple of years later, I said to Hamish . . .

The business was doing well, and I said, "Look, we need a holiday. We've been really, really busy. Why don't we go to this Infusionsoft conference over in Phoenix? It'll be a bit of a jolly." I hope the ATO are not listening to this right now, but we were thinking, "We'll go over there. It's at a nice resort in Phoenix, and we'll just sit. We'll go to the opening thing, and then we'll just sit by the pool and relax and enjoy ourselves." So off we went, and that was totally our intention. It was at the Biltmore, which is this magnificent hotel in Phoenix. And the very first day, we went to the opening of the conference, and Clate Mask got, as he always does, the CEO of Infusionsoft. And we did not leave the conference for the next three days. It was just electrifying to be in a room full of people like us, people who owned small businesses, who had a ton of ups and downs running them, and who had started using this incredible tool, Infusionsoft.

And to be with those people and spending time with them and knowing that there were others like us. I mean, it's very isolating when you're a small business owner. So we didn't leave the conference room. We were just unbelievable, and at the end of the day, we'd go, "Oh, what about this? What about that?" And I said to Hamish, "I'm just so excited," and while we were there, they had the Ultimate Marketer finalists come up and do their presentations. There were four. Back in those days, they did them as four.

Samantha: Which year was that? Do you remember?

Lisa: That was 2011. And when I heard their stories, their stories resonated so deeply with me, and I thought, "Wow, they're like gods." That's how I felt. Because I was just this baby user, and hearing about what they were doing really inspired me. So the next year, we went to the conference and the same thing happened, and I just thought, "Wow, wow, wow." Went the following year, 2013, and at that event, I guess because I'd been a user for a while, Clate Mask invited me to lunch. And it was one of his town hall lunches, so we went to the Presidential Suite at the Weston, and there were 10 users from around the world. Had a lovely lunch with Clate, and then at the end of it, I went over to him and I shook his hand and I thanked him very much for inviting me, and I said, "And by the way, I'm going to be your next Ultimate Marketer." And he just looked at me. He looked at me Sam, and he went, "Oh. Well, awesome!"

And that was great. And that was lunch, and then after lunch, the next session was Jermaine Griggs, and I know that you spoke [inaudible 00:15:07].

Samantha: Yes, yeah, I love Jermaine.

Lisa: I'm a massive, massive, massive fan of Jermaine. And so Jermaine was up on stage next, and he was as inspirational as always.

Samantha: Ah, he's awesome.

Lisa: Afterwards, I said to Hamish, "I need to meet him. I want a photo with him." So we waited afterwards, we went and had a chat with him, and as we were going, I shook his hand and I said, "Jermaine, I'm going to be the 2014 Ultimate Marketer." And he was just, I mean, he's so gracious and gorgeous, and he goes, "You go for it, girl! You go for it!" So I felt like, at that point, I had put it out into the public domain that I'd set that intention, and I couldn't back away from it. And so I just did everything I could to prepare our business to go into that competition, so yeah. It was a process. It took a while.

Samantha: And did that intention create a, if you like, a drive or a catalyst for you to get that level of automation to the next step in your business?

Lisa: Yes, definitely. And what I'd done is, each time that we'd been to the Infusionsoft conference, each time, I'd taken copious amounts of notes, and I'd try to, when I'd get back to Australia, implement as fast as possible so that I didn't lose momentum, and that really helped as well. Because I was learning things, and this is the interesting thing. Even though you hear an idea and it might be in a completely different industry to the industry you're working in, you hear an idea, and your brain starts to think about, how can I use that idea in what I do, in my business? So I would hear ideas from surf board companies or from fitness companies or what-have-you, and even though they were completely different business models to ours, I was still able to use so many of their ideas, and tweak and change them as I needed to, to suit our industry, and yeah.

Samantha: And actually, it was you that made me realize the power of that, of that cross-industry fertilization. It was at the user group where we met very briefly, and I want to come to that a little bit later. It's a campaign that you've introduced that I think is amazing, and some of the things about that campaign are really fascinating and interesting in your industry, but so transferable to others, but we will get to that. So let's get into . . . You talked earlier about not even knowing what an autoresponder was, and some of the terminology in this industry can be a real barrier, I think, for a lot of small business owners. If somebody had come to you, perhaps, before you'd had that experience with Debbie, your coach, your eyes might have glazed over in saying, "You need an autoresponder, or you need some sort of level of automation in your business."

Can you tell me, do you have a definition of digital marketing automation or marketing automation, and what are the boundaries for that? How do you relate that for small business owners?

Lisa: Well I guess, for me, the way I relate it is, do you want to save time, do you want to save money, and do you want to be able to work on your business? And certainly in the cleaning industry, and it's starting to change now, but a few years ago, if you mentioned anything about automation, the very first thing you'd get would be people going, "Oh, I'm not technical. I can't do this." For me, digital marketing is about being in front of your ideal clients and in front of your audience. And essentially, first of all, figuring out who they are, and then putting yourself in front of them, and that's all it is. It's not necessary for every single business owner to be an expert in that area. There are so many wonderful resources out there. There are so many companies, so many Infusionsoft-certified partners who are very experienced in helping business owners with that sort of stuff.

And I guess, that's an area where people need to start looking at, "I'm not good at this. If I'm not good at it, why do it?" Invest a little bit of money and get someone who is good at it to do it for you, and that would be advice I would give anyone. If you feel like you possibly will have the expertise, because you think that way or you are a little bit techy, then by all means, dive in to all the . . . I mean, there are so many resources out there that are free.

Samantha: Yes, absolutely.

Lisa: But digital market, it's not going away, and for small business owners, if they don't get on board with it in some way, shape or form . . . They don't have to take on every single aspect of it, but if they find where their audience are, where their people are, and then they make it their business to either get good at it themselves or get someone who's good at it to do it for them, that's really what they should be doing.

Samantha: And where, in your business now, Cleancorp, and I know that you're also now focusing on helping others implement Infusionsoft, and we'll also come to that in a bit more detail later, but in Cleancorp, is automation limited to sales and marketing, or do you use automation and Infusionsoft beyond that in your business?

Lisa: Infusionsoft, automation is used along every single thing we do at Cleancorp. And I joke about it with my husband that I've literally automated myself out of a job because the whole business runs very, very effectively. And this is the thing. A lot of business owners will be attracted to automation purely for the sales and marketing functionally and that's great if that's all you need. But you get really, really cool stuff happening and, you know, you can see I'm very excited about it. It changed my life. All the work flow processes, every single thing that we do in Cleancorp is what we call Infusionized. So if we're doing something new, if we've got a new product or anything, we figure out how to automate that first before we do anything, and it's proven really effective for us. I'll just give you an example. In the cleaning industry, there's a lot of government compliance around that, an incredible amount.

And when you're talking about Fair Work Australia, you're working about WorkCover, you're talking about the Australian Tax Office. I mean, it's serious stuff, and you cannot afford to get it wrong. We have a complete automated system for making sure that we'll never get it wrong, ever. So every single step, it's so cool, Sam.

Samantha: So how do you automate compliance? How does that work? What's an example of that? So is it notifications and things like that to regulatory authorities and that kind of stuff?

Lisa: No, it doesn't go out to the authorities, it's all kept in-house. So for example, if we have a new contractor coming to work with us, that new contractor has to go through our on-boarding process, which, of course, is all automated. And that on-boarding process takes them up to a point where they've had to prove themselves on paper and with documentation, and then once that's all been approved by us, then they go to an interview process with us, and we talk to them and what-have-you, so there's that personal touch. Once that happens, and once we give them the green light and they've got all their checks in place and everything, our system knows when their insurance is up.

Samantha: Oh, wow.

Lisa: We are watching all that. We're testing against the Australian Tax Office all the time. We test against ASIC all the time, so every single month, and it's a very, very in-depth process. But just long story short is, our business had four audits last year, and that's not unusual in the cleaning industry. We had a tax audit for PAYG, FBT, payroll tax, you name it, the biggest tax audit you can get. We had a Fair Work Australia, which we get every year, and we had a WorkCover audit. All of those audits, we passed with flying colors. And that's not easy to do, because it's a very labor-intensive industry. And, you know, small business again, hard to keep on top of all the details. We don't have to keep on top of the details because it's all automated, and if it stops at any point, then we're alerted. So we haven't received this, and we make sure that there's plenty of time before things expire and what-have-you so we can address that.

So yeah, it's very, very powerful. And in fact, I was speaking about this at an event last year in Florida, and one of the attendees at that event, he contacted me two weeks ago and said," Would you talk me through that? Because that whole contracting business model is starting to really grow in the US, and they don't know how to do this." So it's a very cool way of using Infusionsoft that a lot of people wouldn't . . .

Samantha: Wouldn't ever think to use.

Lisa: Yeah, wouldn't necessarily think to do that.

Samantha: That's fantastic. So in terms of where to start, where would you recommend? Now, you've potentially started in a particular area because you're familiar with that area because you'd experienced it, or perhaps not. But where would you recommend someone actually starts out with automation, with either digital marketing automation or just automation generally?

Lisa: I would start out by looking at the process first. So the first thing for me would be, how do your customers buy? What do they go through? What are the steps? Now again, I'll use us as an example. We know, with absolute certainty, that when somebody fills out a form on our website, they've probably filled out forms on between three and five other cleaning websites as well. So knowing that in advance means that I want to make sure that we stand out, and that people remember who we are. So I have some cool little tricks that do that, and then we send them emails at certain times to address those things. So we might send them something like a testimonial. We'll send that something like, "Hey, here's our FAQs," you know, "This is what everyone asks us about this." Those types of things are there, that the messaging that we send out there, and we heavily brand that messaging.

And I'm not a fan of heavy branding across everything, but when you're first introduced, it's always a good idea to make yourself stand out. And then we do some stuff after they've said, "Yeah, I want an appointment." So we've worked it all out, and then we automated that process exactly to mirror it.

Samantha: Okay, and so I could imagine, having filled in forms for various things, and particularly in the corporate world, you fill in the form once, you're lucky if you do get an autoresponse, but anyway, to that form. But then you get the calls starting, and the relentless salespeople trying to get your time and all that sort of stuff, but what you're not getting is helpful information that you can digest in your time, at your own pace, that isn't in your face. So what you're doing, your competitors probably aren't doing.

Lisa: Exactly, exactly. I've tried to make sure that everything we do is the exact opposite to what everyone else does. And, you know, sometimes, that doesn't work, but with what we've done so far, it has. So we know that if there's five people going in there to quote for a job, that poor person who's meeting with those five people, she actually will forget who person number one, number two is. She will. It just happens. So you need to recognize those failure points in the process and then go, "Okay, how can I turn that on its head and make sure that's actually a positive for me."

Samantha: Yeah, and so then you just automate that.

Lisa: Then I automate it, yeah.

Samantha: So start with that, the earliest part in the process . . . And just go from there. Because the more that you do, the more you think, can I do this? Can I do that?

Lisa: Yeah, and don't be afraid of it either. Don't be afraid of asking, looking at those even very simple campaigns that are available in the Infusionsoft marketplace that you can download. I mean, that's where I started. The first thing I did was, I used the templates out of the template library, and I just changed, you know, cleaning. I took out whatever industry they had in there, and I put cleaning. The point is, if you just start, and then as you go, as you become more confident, you can play around with it more, and you can use more of your own voice because you know who your customers are, you know what they want, and you know how to talk to them. So it's a confidence thing, I think, in many instances.

Samantha: Definitely. Can I ask you to share the campaign that I can remember you talking about at one point? And I think it is absolutely brilliant. I can't tell you how many people I've told about you because of that campaign, which was a lost business campaign. And can you tell our listeners about that campaign and what it does for your business? So I'll let you share.

Lisa: Okay, all right. So the lost business campaign is where, when a prospect comes in, and we've done all of our razzle dazzle with them. We've met with them, we've quoted them, we've done all the follow-up and yet, we still haven't managed to bring them on-board as a customer. And for whatever reason, they've decided to go with somebody else. So we look at that lost prospect as a really hot opportunity, and that's the thing. Rather than losing sight of it, we go, "We got you. We got you. You say no now, but you'll say yes in the future." So they say no to us, and then I've got a campaign where we send them an email and say, "Thank you so much. It's been great, been awesome. If anything happens in the future, we'd love to have you back." So we're very warm in that way.

Now, we know that in commercial contracts, they last for 12 months, so we have this cool little campaign where you get that first email and then you get another email from us three months later.

Samantha: This is brilliant.

Lisa: Because if the cleaner that they gave the work to, or the business that they gave the work to, if they're dropping the ball, at three months, they client's going to be getting like, "Oh, I made the wrong choice," or whatever. So we send them an email just to say, "Hey, just checking in with you. How's it going with your new cleaning company? Hopefully all good, but if not, we'd love to hear from you." Then at six months, we send them another email, and that email is a little bit more like, "Look, is everything going well? Here's a $300 voucher, no strings attached. If you need some extra work done, give us a call." Now, we know that the contracts are at 12 months, right, so then at 11 months, we send them another email, and that email is very, very strategic. We say to them, "Hey, did you know that your cleaning contract's about to expire with the other guys?

Just to make it easier for you, here's what we quoted you last year," and we use custom fields, so we put everything in there. "We'd love to have you back. And here's a" I think it's a, "$500 voucher for some free services." Now, if they're not happy, they jump then, and we are able to secure 15% of lost prospects, come back to us inside of 12 months. And we haven't done anything. And I want to stress that. I haven't had to stay up at night wondering how I'm going to get them to come back to me. It's just automated.

Samantha: It just happens. And so is the first you know about that that they're picking up the phone and saying, "Actually I'd like to come back"? I mean imagine obviously in Infusionsoft, you can tell when people are engaging with your emails and that sort of stuff as well, but you really haven't had to do anything in that timeframe.

Lisa: Not one single thing. And the interesting thing is, last year, when I was doing my Certified Partner course, I was sitting there and I was listening, but I saw on my phone, I just noticed that I got an email, and I checked it, and this was for $100,000 a year cleaning contract just like that. They came back to [inaudible 00:33:05].

Samantha: The best.

Lisa: Yeah, and I thought, "Oh, yeah! This stuff really works."

Samantha: I'm so glad you mentioned that, because I cannot tell you how satisfying it is seeing alerts pop up on your phone. Yes, you've put in the effort at the start of the process to build the process and that sort of stuff, but really a campaign like that is a fairly straightforward campaign. And you're sitting there doing something else completely different. You haven't invested any further time, and bam, on your phone comes, "There's a new customer." And that new customer, for so many businesses, once they've lost that business, they just would never have followed up, never. You know, it's like, someone gave me an example the other day. I think it might have been Jermaine actually. It's like kissing someone and then walking away, and then saying, "Well, that was a really good experience, but is this not going any further?"

And so many businesses, once they've lost that opportunity, they're either afraid to go back and offer further help, or they just don't even think of it. They're too busy chasing that new business in the door, and you've already invested so much time and energy and money into that prospect, and 15% of those come back.

Lisa: Fifteen, one-five.

Samantha: That is awesome.

Lisa: That's huge. That's huge. And I don't care whether you're selling a tiny little widget or something really expensive, 15% is 15%.

Samantha: That's right.

Lisa: And don't forget that if you're also measuring your customer acquisition costs, all of a sudden, that brings that customer acquisitions way down.

Samantha: That is extraordinary.

Lisa: So there are so many things like that that you can do and, yeah. It's a very simple process.
Samantha: I'm so glad you mentioned your Infusionsoft Certified Partner Training, because really your success in Cleancorp and winning Ultimate Marketer and so on is perhaps, you could consider one part of your life. And now, you have had so much success with Cleancorp and the work that you've done there, and you've helped so many businesses, introduced them to Infusionsoft. But now, one of the things that is really exciting is that those new businesses have access to you to help them with Infusionsoft, to help them do in their business what you have done in yours. Can you tell us a little bit about that transition and what you're doing now? Because this is so, so, so exciting.

Lisa: Yeah, it has been. And I didn't know that that this was my passion. It's really strange. If you'd asked me five years ago if I would have been doing this, I'd be like, "No," but I love it. And I love it because you can help business owners who really, they want this stuff, but they don't know how to think it through, or they don't have any marketing expertise. You can lay it out on a platter and show them how this very, very simple process can work. Now once they can sort of see the future, as it were, then they get really excited. It's totally infectious, and the customers that I've helped, the clients and the businesses that I've helped, it's really gratifying, because as soon as the needle starts to move on your business, wow, you get so excited about that. And then they come back and say, "Okay, what's next? What can we do next? What's the next step?" And that's been just a great part of this whole process.

And not only that, having a great community that I can draw on as well. I mean, the Infusionsoft community in Australia, it's there for everyone. So users can hop on a Facebook group, and they've got a problem, they can pop it in there, and there's always someone who knows the answer to the question. I've used it myself. It's just awesome, so yeah, I'm loving it.

Samantha: So I might be giving a little bit away here, but tell us about Now listen, I might be revealing a secret here, and our listeners get the exclusive early info, but tell us about, yes,

Lisa: Well, I'm glad you asked. I feel like this is the debut. This is the debut for Cleaning Marketer.

Samantha: How exciting!

Lisa: It is exciting. And I have been helping a lot of cleaning business owners, both in the US and here in Australia, and I think that's where my passion lies. The greatest need that I can see at the moment is there. On the 1st of July this year, 1st of July 2015, Cleaning Marketer officially opens for business.

Samantha: Oh, that's fantastic.

Lisa: And so that will be me helping other cleaning business owners not only to succeed in their businesses, but to help them with really the area of their business that they have the most problems with, and that is the marketing. So I've got all of my campaigns. Everything that I use, all my award-winning stuff, every single campaign that Cleancorp has used is going to be available to my Cleaning Marketer community.

Samantha: Oh, my goodness.

Lisa: Yes, so it's a very big project. I've been working on this for months. And I'll also be providing how-to guides. How do you do a follow-up? Because there will be people in the cleaning community who are not ready, perhaps, to move into an automation system just yet, but they want to know how to do it, and they want to know what processes that they need to go through. So I will be sharing all of my systems, my content, ideas, strategies, all of that, with cleaning business owners all over the world.

Samantha: Hang on a second. What you're telling me is that people in the cleaning industry, and I just want to get some clarity around "cleaning industry" because I guess I've got an impression and I just want to clarify, can come to you and get the campaigns that you're using in Cleancorp that have helped build your business customized for their business because there is going to be some differentiation and stuff like that, because if everyone's the same, there's no point. But they can get all of the stuff that you've already done invested years in basically in their Infusionsoft application.

Lisa: Yes.

Samantha: And they can just be up and running like that. That is so exciting. That is so exciting. Now, just to clarify that, the cleaning industry, I've got in my mind office cleaning kind of stuff. Is that the kind of customer that you're dealing with or is it broader than that?

Lisa: It's broader than that. So we're talking about commercial cleaning businesses that do B2B. We're talking about residential cleaning companies, maid services. We're talking pool cleaning services, boat cleaning services, window cleaners, carpet cleaners, anyone in that space, is who I'm helping. Because all of those are so tightly related. Yeah, so that whole area is where I'm totally focused on giving as much as I can, as much content as I can, and ideas. And we'll have a private Facebook group for members.

Samantha: Oh, that is so exciting.

Lisa: Because this community, and it's a funny one, the cleaning industry, where we don't tend to talk to each other or share with each other. And I know from my own personal experience, I have spoken with cleaning business owners all over the world. And it's fabulous I have access to them, but I know that there are so many other cleaning business owners who don't have access to that brains trust, if you want to call it a brains trust. So that community, we can all help each other. And I believe that there's more than enough cleaning work out there for everyone, which is why I'm not afraid to put my stuff out there, because I know that the way that we do it is going to be different to the way that other businesses do it. So I've got this whole abundance thing happening here. I just think there's more than enough.

Samantha: And you know what? That's one of the things that I love about the Infusionsoft community generally, is that abundance philosophy. And even if you're not comfortable with the idea of an abundance philosophy, the desire and willingness for people to help each other out and to give information and to give tools and answers and time to each other to help each other's businesses grow out of the genuine desire to see small business grow and to see its contribution to regional economies, global economies and so on continue to thrive and change that dynamic of failure in small business and struggle in small business to really quite a more constructive and helpful and inspiring industry to be in.

Lisa: Yeah, exactly. And I think in the cleaning industry, it doesn't always get the respect that it deserves. There is this sort of, what do I call it? Job snobbery, and that's been something that is very high on my agenda. I want this industry to be not racing each other to the bottom of the price. I want to give this industry the tools that they need so they can charge more, they can be dealing with their ideal clients, so they're dealing with customers who pay them on time, respect them, are willing to give testimonials, are willing to make referrals, rather than the punishing clients who want to pay late, complain all the time, won't refer, won't give testimonials. You know, our industry is a really important one, but to date, I don't think we get the recognition that we deserve. So that's one of my motivating factors as well. It's, let's get the whole industry up higher and moving in that direction so that we can all benefit from that.

Samantha: Can I you tell, there's two things that come to mind there. One is, it's always so exciting to share success stories of people that have had success in business and in different types of business. And particularly, cleaning is more of, I guess, a traditional business. It's not necessarily considered an online business, that kind of thing. So that's really exciting. It's always good to share those stories, but there's always that sense of remoteness. "Well, that person can do that, but I can't." And now, what we're saying is that any of our listeners that are in any of those businesses that relate to cleaning can actually have that success and have access to you. Because I think that's one of the things that is just so exciting about that announcement, is that our listeners can then say, "I can take action on that today and actually make that happen for my business, not have to try and squirrel away and work at it for years to get it going."

So that's really exciting. And the other observation is, seeing you talk about the cleaning industry and its reputation, and, I love that term, job snobbery and that kind of thing, it actually looks like you are far more exciting about the cleaning industry than perhaps you were when Hamish first invited you into it.

Lisa: Yes, you are right. You are definitely right, yes. The first time he asked me, it was like, "Oh, really? It's not really my thing." But I am, and it's been really good for us, and I am a lot more excited about it now, and the possibilities, yeah.

Samantha: And you do invest a lot of time in the industry and in the community of the industry as well. You also speak at conferences and that kind of thing as well, don't you?

Lisa: That right.

Samantha: So do you have any events coming up where people might have access to you? I mean, you've got a lot going on.

Lisa: Yes, I do.

Samantha: And you also have a new book out that I'd love to share with our audience as well.

Lisa: Yes, I do.

Samantha: But just in terms of events where people might connect with you, is there anything going on coming up?

Lisa: There is. There is the Prulier [SP] Cleaning Event on the Gold Coast in October. I'll be there. There's also another event in Las Vegas also in October and I will be there.

Samantha: Wow. So I can put some of those details in the show notes, perhaps, and let people know where you might be speaking at some of those conferences, yeah?

Lisa: Absolutely, yeah. That's would be great. That'd be great. And I'm on the board for our local cleaning association here, so it's not something that I'm doing at arm's length. I'm very much involved in the industry and the business and what-have-you. And the speaking, I love the speaking. I love meeting cleaning business owners. And when I was at ICON, when we both were at the Infusionsoft conference in April this year, there were so many, my heart sang, there were so many cleaning business owners at that event.

Samantha: That's fantastic.

Lisa: And I feel like, I hope I met all of them while I was there. I had people, we were having meetings all over the place and talking with them. And it's exciting, because they can see the future, and this is the future.

Samantha: The future. Yeah, yeah. And as if you don't have anything else to do with your spare time, you've also just written a book with Brian Tracey? Are you kidding me? Brian Tracey?

Lisa: I know!

Samantha: No, you have the book there. I've got the Kindle Edition.

Lisa: I have the book here.

Samantha: Yes, Power Principles for Success Number 2.

Lisa: Number two?

Samantha: Number two. It's only recently launched, and you're writing the book about your seven-step Power Principles SYSTEM. Can you tell us what the system stands for?

Lisa: Okay. Well, SYSTEM stands for Save Yourself Some Time, Energy and Money, and I'm all about that.

Samantha: I like the idea of that.

Lisa: That sort of became the foundation for starting all of this really, was, how can I save myself time? Because I was the only one doing the marketing for Cleancorp. And I used some of the principles that I had learnt in my travel days and really just knowing who your client is. I will be going through this on my training program in Cleaning Marketer. But figuring out who that is, and a lot of business owners say, "Well, I can clean anyone's office." And it always makes me laugh, because really that's not an ideal client. So getting really, really laser-focused on who your ideal client is, where they are, what their demographics are, and even building a bit of an avatar in your mind of who that looks like, what that person looks like for you. So that when you meet them, when you start interacting with them, you can identify that because of these different traits that they have that you've already identified.

And then figuring out, what is it that they want? What is it? What is it that they want? Yes, they want a clean office, or want a clean boat or a clean house or clean carpets. But it's bigger than that. It's more than that, and so diving into, what is it that they want? What are their pain points? What are their hot buttons, their problems? And then once you've got all of that information, then it's so easy to find them and talk to them, and that's what the SYSTEM's all about.

Samantha: And you go through the SYSTEM in the book, which is fantastic, and it explains it, I have to say, in terms that are really understandable. We talked earlier about terminology in this industry and it can be a little bit intimidating and that sort of stuff, but you explain it there in a way that give actionable steps and really gives people an idea about what they need to do in each of those seven core strategies in order to be able to implement the system, which is great. And I imagine that your clients in will be able to have access to that kind of process as well.

Lisa: Exactly, and we'll dive really deep into it. In the book, I've given an overview of what that process looks like and a little bit of detail. But in the program, we go really deep. And it's amazing how going through this program and through this process really opens your eyes. Because you may think that this particular group over here are where you want to be, but once we go through this process, you might be surprised at who your ideal client really is. And once you know that, it's super powerful. It's really powerful.

Samantha: It is really powerful. And you know, I think about that young fellow who comes and cleans my car once a month. And he knows well enough my routine that there are certain times, if we need to reschedule for any reason, or if it's raining, that kind of stuff. He never comes if it's raining, and even though I'm quite happy to have a car and I know it's going to rain the next day anyway. But he knows that there's no point suggesting a certain time because I'm just not available during those times. For example, a lot of my clients are in the States or overseas, so mornings are not great for me to have to go out and let him in. And he know where the keys are. He basically just comes, helps himself, and does that. But knowing those little details about me and my quirks and that sort of thing allows him to know his customer. Because a lot of those customers have very similar thoughts, but their variables may be marginally different.

So there are certain things about what they're specifically after. And that's how knowing your avatar and knowing that ideal customer is really important, isn't it? I mean, it's really like your focus on the cleaning industry as opposed to any old industry. I'm sure that there are a lot of people that you could help with Infusionsoft, but the value that people get from you, your customers get from you and you get from that exchange and from that process and you're able to give, is much greater if you're focusing on cleaning-related businesses.

Lisa: That's right. That's exactly right. And that's why when I first started as a Certified Partner for Infusionsoft, I was helping a wide range of industries, but it didn't make sense to me when I had so much expertise in one particular industry. And really, they were the main people coming to me anyway. So I thought, "Well, I think I should be helping that industry." And, yeah, that's why I just made that quantum shift and went, "Okay, to the exclusion of all others, I am just talking and looking after this industry."

Samantha: And the great thing about that is, you're practicing what you preach. And people can see how that actually delivers success as a result of that.

Lisa: [inaudible 00:53:15] built a business. So it's not theory with me. I've actually done it, so I've taken a cleaning business and turned it into a multi-million dollar cleaning business that's an international, all over Australia and New Zealand. So I guess the proof is in the pudding, if you want to put it that way. It's different to [inaudible 00:53:40].

Samantha: It's stuff that works. It's not theory.

Lisa: Yeah.

Samantha: Yeah. And so how can people get hold of you? How can they connect with you and ask you questions and become part of that community?

Lisa: Oh, sure. If they want to reach out to me, they can reach out to me either at Facebook at Cleaning Marketer, or they can reach out to me at

Samantha: Oh, terrific. Fantastic. I'll make sure that that goes in the show notes as well.

Lisa: Awesome, thank you.

Samantha: Lisa, this has just been such a value-packed interview today. Thank you so much for sharing so much with us. There's a lot of detail in there and a lot of ideas that people just listening to this could implement in their business tomorrow, whether they have Infusionsoft or not. But once they actually understand the power of those ideas and the scalability of those ideas, they're probably going to want to go to a tool like Infusionsoft in order to be able to really scale that up in a much faster fashion. So thank you for being so generous with your time and your knowledge. I really appreciate that. And for sharing with us your launch coming up. I'm very excited about that and can't wait to see how that goes and any support that I can give for that, please let me know. But thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it, Lisa.

Lisa: Aw, thank you, Sam. It's be awesome to be here with you. Thank you.

Samantha: It has, thanks.

Lisa: Thank you very much.

Topics: Podcast


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